I wish I knew. I was asking a neighbor over the weekend why we had so few kids ring the bell on Halloween, and she suspected it was because the local community centre was hosting a costume party for the kids instead. You know, it's a safer place for the kids to be, she said. We live in on a well-lit street in a quiet, fairly upper-middle-class neighborhood with lots of young families...I can't even begin to imagine where the perceptions of fear and/or "unsafe-ness" come from. I do know, however, that my kids (when I have kids) will know the joy of trick-or-treating all over the neighborhood, and eagerly dumping their bags of loot on the living room floor - trading each other Tootsie Rolls for Smarties and Rolos - rather than traipsing around a gymnasium floor during Costumes On Parade. Sigh.

I think there were just as many pervs and perps back in our childhood, but we (1) didn't talk about it and (2) didn't hear about it through the news. Seriously, my neighbor (age 13) was raped by a stranger when I was a kid in a park across the street. Over the years I heard whispers and knew something happened, but never fully knew what happened until I was in college. Now, that could have been my own family politics, but I think it was the times. You just didn't discuss those things.

Nowadays, they go on Oprah and tell all the sordid details. Neither one is healthy, in my opinion.

And Don, we love trick or treating - even gave out 350 pieces this year and had to shut down early and turn off the light. Our kids go through the neighborhood, but always with one of us.

Here's another thing that was different when I was a kid - everybody in the neighbourhoods looked out for the kids - ALL the kids. If one of the other Mothers in my cul de sac saw me misbehaving, she hollared at me to cut it out...or else. And my Mother thanked her for it instead of threatening to sue, which is what would happen in many places today.

Maybe it's the fear of all those bad people we now KNOW (as opposed to suspecting) are everywhere, but we seem to have become a society that has caused families to close in on themselves, rather than interacting with neighbours. Somebody, (maybe it was you David) commented recently that we get in our cars inside the garage and drive to work, then we use the door opener, drive back into the garage and go in the house without ever seeing, let alone speaking to, our neighbours. I think that ultimately breeds fear and suspicion even where it isn't warranted.

I think that we can blame the current cultural climate for the fact that we don't know our neighbors, and get nods all around, and keep the door locked and be done with it. But I also think that we can change things ourselves.

My daughter was born in Juneau, which, granted, is a fairly small community. We bought a house on a cul-de-sac next to a creek (more like a slough, but I digress). We adults might have got away with not knowing each other, but our kids had a different idea. There was a whole little pack of them all within about four years of the same age, and they loved to hang out together and play--riding bikes, playing hide-and-seek without regard for the boundaries of our yards, poking sticks in the muddy creek, you name it. Being a fairly protective mother, I decided that it was my business to get to know my neighbors, because I had a whole bunch of rules for my own daughter: no crap TV, no being in a house that has guns that aren't locked in a case, things like that.

It wasn't all that hard to meet my neighbors. We all had yards that needed tending, and it didn't take much to ask, during mutual yard work, if the neighbor in the next yard over would like some lemonade, and then have a chat over the fence. Several times, I just went and introduced myself to people, explaining that, since our kids had become friends, I wanted to meet them, invite them over anytime in case they'd like to see what kind of place their child was hanging out when he or she came to visit me, and talk a little bit about things that were important to me (don't feed my kid candy, pretty please, and no Power Rangers--kick her outside and tell her to go play or go home).

It took a little initial courage to make those contacts, but it paid off in spades. Because all of us got to know each other in the neighborhood--deliberately--we DID look after each other's kids. Not only that, but we looked after each other. We had no problems in that neighborhood with theft, or with one of the elderly neighbors being neglected, or with our kids misbehaving (beyond the usual goofball stuff--like my daughter and her friend deciding it would be fun, in the thawing pond down the road, to climb onto the remaining ice and float around. In that case, a more distant neighbor, one I'd never met at all, tracked me down and told me what my child was up to). I couldn't have asked for a better place for my daughter to spend her childhood; but I truly believe that it wouldn't have been that kind of neighborhood if we hadn't been pretty intentional about our relationships with each other.

How to transfer that kind of cooperative and mutually beneficial social network into the workplace is trickier. When it comes to raising kids and being neighbors, you don't run into backstabbing, political games, brown-nosing, competition for limited budgetary funds, or any of the other self-serving variables that are unfortunately common in the workplace. Not to say that most people at work are like that--in fact, I'd venture to say that most aren't; that most people want to work together to get the job done, feel valued, have positive inter-relationships, and are frustrated by the minority that's so eager for self-aggrandizement (or is it just success in one's field? Perhaps I'm jaded; I'm beginning to see things differently as I enter my 50s).

I'm far less confident in my ability to establish and maintain positive relationships at work than I am in the world, and yet I'm the same person in both. But I've been slammed so many times in various jobs by people without any qualms whatsoever about throwing me to the wolves if they think it'll advance their own goals that I am far less... friendly, I guess. I keep to my own circle, when it comes to honest conversation, at work. I am cautious about presenting new ideas, or expressing frustration, or pointing out systemic flaws and possible new approaches. I've found the conservatism of the workplace to be unreceptive and often hostile to any new idea that might upset the management ecology.

I have far more faith in our ability to be good neighbors than to be good co-workers.

God, what a sadsack post. Perhaps I should just hit delete.

Permission to speak freely? Watch it. Remember the discussion of Karen Hughes' presentation at PRSA? Long before she even took the podium there were endless discussions of how she might be shouted down.

Whether we support it or not, there is so much constriction on speech these days to make you stop and think before you ever say anything. Why would it be different online? Call it political correctness, or corporate big brother watching you, or whatever.

It seems that we see a weekly situation in which someone says something that infuriates or offends. We should watch what we say and be civil. That was my only point about the Hughes situation. But I think people hold back because, well, Google never forgets.

>>...I've been looking at my four-year-old and wondering at what point in her childhood development will it be appropriate to inform her that she will live her whole adult life watching everything she says, like some kind of corporate politician.<<

David,

Chances are, if the psychologists and trendwatchers are correct, your daughter won't mind one twit about a world we personally would find reprehensible. As outlined in the editorial below in eContent Magazine, and what I've seen in numerous analysis of the differences in the generations, our kids are perfectly willing to trade personal privacy for ease of information access, safety, better living conditions, etc.

My own college age daughter, for example, doesn't see anything wrong with this country adopting a national identity system as a way to combat terrorism, illegal immigration, etc. I, OTOH, whose parents were members of the greatest generation, who never got to know some uncles/cousins because of WWII, who is the first generation after the Holocaust and who lived through the Cold War, can't fathom why anyone would want to volutarily sign up to be tracked, at any time, by any government.

Unfortunately, as POGO might have said, we have met those who have failed our kids...and they are us.

http://www.econtentmag.com/Articles/ArticleReader.aspx?ArticleID=39892&Query=drink%20water

Oops! Forgot to change my identity back from making a point yesterday....so I guess the cat's out of the bag as to who Jesus was/is!

Should we now start asking ourselves WWCD? What would Craig do?

Craig/Jesus - At risk of being called an old, out-of-touch bag (which, some days is exactly how I feel) I might venture to suggest that these kids who have no issues with giving up their personal privacy and being lined up and tracked in these "national identity" systems (I shudder even typing that!) feel that way because they have never experienced the ways in which this type of information may be misused (have none of these children learned about Nazi Germany? Have they not seen or at least heard about the current run movie "Rendition" ??? Does the stuff going on in Guantanamo Bay completely escape them?)

Unfortunately, most people have the "It would never happen to ME" blinders on, until it does happen to them, or someone they know, at which point it is usually far to late to do anything about it.

Ok, now I am totally depressed. Thanks alot David for starting this!

Some great posts here, all, and lots of wisdom contained. (But what would you expect from a group that included Jesus himself.)

A couple points:

• Joan, your post was great. I'm moving to Juneau on Friday. Can you make some introductions? I would say that corporations, unlike neighborhoods, are structured in many ways to keep people from getting along too well. (Imagine everyone trusted everyone and everyone agreed the CEO was a moron.)

• "Permission to speak freely? Watch it. Remember the discussion of Karen Hughes' presentation at PRSA? Long before she even took the podium there were endless discussions of how she might be shouted down."

Now Les, there were NOT "endless discussions," there was one discussion, right here, based on my experience with Newt Gingrich at PRSA 10 years ago, where I speculated she might be shouted down. Then you and one other blogger picked up on it, and that was about it.

And even if there were endless Internet discussions speculating on Hughes getting shouted down ... so what? People aren't allowed to object to their association's choice of a keynote speaker until the speaker has left the assembly hall?

• Craig, Kristen, kids don't care about privacy because they don't need it yet. They've got no livelihood to protect, no mortgage to pay and no past to want to protect. The same kids will care a hell of a lot more in oh, say, 15 years.

>>The same kids will care a hell of a lot more in oh, say, 15 years.<<

In 15 years there is a good chance that we will have reached a point of no return and they will have no choice.

Consider,....social security numbers were never designed for identification purposes, in fact I remember in my younger days when we were told to guard it like life itself. Now they are routinely required in order to cash a check in many establishments...heck, my employer uses it as an employee identification number.

No offense to my American friends, but this is another reason I'm glad I live in Canada. Here it was made illegal to use Social Insurance Numbers (our version of Social Security #'s) as employee ID's several years ago, and any employers using them were required to change to another system.

We are still warned regularly that the ONLY people to whom you should (or are even required) to provide that number to is an employer or your financial services organization (bank, etc.)

We also have a Commissioner (both provincially and federally) who is mandated to protect, investigate and punish privacy violations against Canadians. While I'm not a big supporter of governments running amok or running my life, this is one area where I absolutely want someone looking into things.

Kristen, quit taunting! I'd move to Dawson City in a heartbeat if I could find one reason that Canada would keep me. So far, I haven't convinced the Yukon that there's any reason I'd enhance the community, apparently. Sigh. But when it comes to Canada, I'm a big fan! ;-) You've given me one more reason to wish I were there.

- I was fortunate to take my two-year-old daughter trick-or-treating for the first time. We went to a friend's house and the neighborhood, well, it was "Pleasantville". All the neighbors were out participating in Halloween, enjoying the kids excitement and living vicariously through them to enjoy the innocent happiness. I do hope such experiences will continue.

- I thought I knew everything when I was a teenager/in college. Then something would go wrong and I'd have to call my mom or dad and ask for help.

- We've recently moved to a new neighborhood and we just had our first set of neighbors move in next door. We've introduced ourselves but that's it. I do drive in and out of the garage, but I'm also at the mailbox everyday. It's at the end of the driveway. I take my daughter and the dog with me. We like to sit outside and enjoy the weather. Two homes and they are nowhere in sight. Is that my fault?

- Social security numbers? I figure at some point everyone will have access to mine anyway thanks to someone in some agency losing the laptop that contains all my information.

- What about the possibility that we're afraid because we've been told to be afraid? Many people's comments have brought up the fact that in today's world, we have more tv/radio/newspapers spilling every detail about perverts, sex offenders, etc., and that these people are our neighbors. Have we subconsciously been brainwashed that we'll be safer if we don't stick together?

"Have we subconsciously been brainwashed that we'll be safer if we don't stick together?"

I don't know about this, Susan. But I do think that we have gone completely insane. Insane with worry, insane with paranoia, insane with an obsession with safety, insane with a belief that we can control everything (where does most child abuse happen; where it's always happened—in the home).

It's great that parents can take their kids trick-or-treating. It's tragic that kids can't go plunging through the dark lawns in packs, without parents. Riding a bike down an unkown road, farther than you've ever ridden before. Kicking around the neighborhood on one random notion after the other. Tripping along wooded streams with no sense of time besides the setting sun.

DO YOU REMEMBER THAT JOY? What have we lost? What have we given away? What do we have left?

We choose our lots in many ways. I grew up in a small Alaskan community, that in most parts of the country wouldn't even be considered a community. This was pre-pipeline, before the oil wealth altered this state so dramatically. Despite the poverty, there seemed always to be enough money for alcohol, and where I lived, that was pretty much the drug of choice, chosen by most who could. I spent more evenings down at the local bar waiting for my dad to finish up than I did at home doing my homework or watching TV.

One of the neighbors was known to be sexually molesting his daughter. I know this because I heard the adults talking about it. I saw how he touched her when we visited their house. But no one made a move to stop him.

I knew about locals who were stealing things and going to Anchorage to sell them. Poaching moose and selling the meat in town. You knew who to watch and who to trust. And even so, when things were really rough, which they sometimes were, we also knew that if you needed food, some of that illegal moose would show up at your house.

People disappeared, got murdered; kids were beaten or sexually abused. I remember my aunt's blackened eyes, as an even younger child in rural Michigan, received because my uncle had a temper when he was drinking, and he drank a lot.

When my daughter was little, we had cable TV. Where we lived in Juneau, you couldn't get broadcast TV as the mountains blocked reception. Her dad, who was her caregiver when she was little, would let her watch a daily ration of kids' programming. Come Christmastime, her list was specific: a My Little Pony, a Polly Pocket. The list was long, and very specific, and obviously the result of effective advertising. My husband and I decided that we had just had too much TV, and we cut off the cable. This meant that we now had no programming whatsoever. Anything we watched on TV was from the video store or the public library.

The next Christmas, after less than a year of eliminating exposure to the relentless advertisements, my daughter's Christmas list changed to (and this is a near-accurate quote): "I'd like some books and a stuffed animal, and tiddly-winks, and maybe a surprise."

Wow.

We decided not to let her have a video game player because we observed a whole lot of other kids pretty much wired to their televisions (we did finally relent and let her have one of those little hand-held kinds later).

She became one of those weather-wandering kids you describe, David. In Juneau, rain or shine (and it's a temperate rain forest, so there was plenty of weather), she'd be outside climbing trees or trying to sneak up on ducks. I had qualms more than once--I'm a product of this culture, too, and even in Juneau you'd hear about kids disappearing or other tales of evil--but it was like the decision to let her be a gymnast: there's danger in the world, but you can't just hide from it. Do your best to be prepared, try not to be stupid, but live, fully, every day.

I know this has rambled dreadfully; I'm not even sure what my point is. Perhaps that to a large extent we DO choose. If we wrap our children in playdates and sports and lessons and never let them just be, never let them get bored, never make them go amuse themselves, never trust that after 8 years old or so, there's a certain level of autonomy that's not just appropriate but necessary--well, maybe we perpetuate the fearfulness by not standing up against it. That's a pretty hard stand to make, when it's your kid you're talking about; but I just don't know how else to do it. Be mindful, be loving, be watchful, but we just can't live in fear all the time. It's not the model I want to provide my girlie, anyway.

Murray's right. Again. And all this talk about the Northern Neighbo(u)r of the US reminds me of the time when George Bush the First spoke wistfully of "a kinder, gentler America".

But there was no reason for the wistfulness. The place already existed. It was called "Canada".

Joan, thank you for your moving testimony, and I just couldn't agree more with your conclusion, except to say letting your kid be a little freer is made even harder by social mores and the fear that your neighbor might notify child protective services if she sees your kid riding her bike without a helmet.

I live in the city and will have to make different decisions and guesses—at eight, for instance, is Scout allowed to go down the block to the corner store for a gallon of milk? I won't know until she's eight, but if we determine it's not safe for her to do that here, we'll have to move to somewhere where it is. I love the city and all the wonders that it offers, but I WON'T raise her a prisoner.

And Mike, this will make a great bumper sticker when I finally run for president: "Murray's right. Again.®"

And Mike's parting words about Canada? Priceless. And precisely why I've moved here!

This conversation has really stayed with me and I think the reason is that the idea of intentionally teaching any child (never mind a child raised by David Murray!) to "live her whole adult life watching everything she says, like some kind of corporate politician" is just too disturbing.

While I realize it may be presumptuous of me (as someone without children) to make any suggestions to parents, I think that instead of teaching them to self-censor, we might want to consider encouraging our children to build lives that don't depend on "stuff" (i.e. enormous mortgages, expensive cars, etc.) so that they can have and voice their opinions without needing to care what some potential HR person or boss thinks just to be able pay the bills.

I know very few people who think this culture of political correctness and restricted speech has improved our world. The whole point of having children is to help them have a better life than you had, isn't it? So I think we owe it to our kids to teach them how to be fearless about speaking their minds, no?

This conversation has really stayed with me and I think the reason is that the idea of intentionally teaching any child (never mind a child raised by David Murray!) to "live her whole adult life watching everything she says, like some kind of corporate politician" is just too disturbing.

While I realize it may be presumptuous of me (as someone without children) to make any suggestions to parents, I think that instead of teaching them to self-censor, we might want to consider encouraging our children to build lives that don't depend on "stuff" (i.e. enormous mortgages, expensive cars, etc.) so that they can have and voice their opinions without needing to care what some potential HR person or boss thinks just to be able pay the bills.

I know very few people who think this culture of political correctness and restricted speech has improved our world. The whole point of having children is to help them have a better life than you had, isn't it? So I think we owe it to our kids to teach them how to be fearless about speaking their minds, no?

Kristen, do you think for a single moment that I will EVER tell Scout to self-censor?

Right on re. stuff, but all that is relative and in our countries, relatively non-materialistic is still addicted to nonsense shit.

Only way I know how to teach Scout about fearlessness is to show it--which I do only about 1/5 of the time.

Working on it (with my friends),

David

I wish that we were all neighbors, and could get together and cook a big supper, with the little kids watching the big ones, laughter and music, aromas of garlic and tomatoes and a fresh-made Caesar salad, bumping into each other in the kitchen, uncorking a good red wine, and lingering late into the evening because the conversation is too good to leave. My life has grown far too hectic, I think; the thought of such a lovely evening and how long it's been since I've had one is my own little lesson in priorities, and I believe that mine have been misplaced.

It's snowing here on this quiet Sunday, the first real snowfall we've had all winter. I live far out in the country, where moose wander through my yard and stare disinterested at me while they munch my trees. I wish you were all here watching this snowy woods fill with me.

...Joan