A. Gabrielle isn't an an angel; she was Xena Warrior Princess' "friend"

B. When one chooses to receive an award that has been offered, it's time to be gracious rather than lecturing the audience about the perceived shallowness of other recipients' religious faith.

C. "B" is particularly true when one clearly has zero religious faith of one's own.

D. Steve is right. We all understand that Kathy (who often is very funny) told us clearly what her real message was: that the award (fame) IS her "god" (what she worships). Fine. Say that. But don't tell the son of God to perform a lewd sexual act.

E. She should have stopped--but then, she makes a very good living NOT stopping herself from saying rude things. And I predict that there will be no fallout for Kathy from this statement, either. Christians are expected to put up with this shit, but god help you if you disrespect a Muslim or question Al Gore's science.

Whoa! Jane my friend you are in fine form today!

A. Cut the guy a break! It was a typo! Coulda happened to anyone!

B. The main reason people WATCH these shows is in the goulish hope that something just like this will happen. And... "perceived shallowness"???? Let's be real here - a whole bunch of the people who stand on these awards stages thanking Jesus behave, most of the time in ways that do not come close to conforming to any of the 12 different versions of the bible. Finally, I don't see how Griffin lectured others on their faith she simply stated she didn't have any.

D. Yup - we all agree the impolite suggestion directed at Jesus was inappropriate, guaranteed to offend, and unnecessary to make her point.

E. You're right - going too far is exactly Kathy Griffin's schtick and if anything, I'd bet this will boost her career.

But I haven't experienced that Christians are anymore disrespected than Muslims - I have seen that more people are choosing to reject or at least question the more dogmatic, repressive aspects of organized religions, which I can't be sorry about given some of the very ugly things that are continuing to be done by the "devout" in god's name by all three major religions(I'll leave Gore's science out of this as I've run on way too long already!)

Without getting into issues surrounding religion, politics, or sports, I just worry about people who take entertainment and awards so seriously in the first place. Who cares?

Ok, im a christian & i still think this what she said is pretty laugh-out-loud funny -- if she would have said just "this award is my god now" it wouldnt have been funny -- just her two cents worth... but -- "suck it jesus" is pretty funny comedic timing, whether you agree with it or not.
and that is what she is - a comedian - not a theologian, spiritual leader or even someone who is trying to be thought-provoking..just funny. and she was.

Tivo suggested her show on "E-TV” "My Life on the D List" and I started watching it regularly and find her very funny. From watching her show I can tell you that she is a self-described atheist and she often talks about this in her show and her act. She is also a media whore and got exactly what she wanted, “Publicity”. Of course the media fell for it just like they always do. Whether it’s a new bin laden tape or some school mass murderer’s last words left behind, the media buy into it because it sells.

Remember Madonna? She’s a pro at this and when asked why she does these outrageous offensive things she said something to the tune of, controversy sells and it has mad me boat loads of money.

I have to wonder why E, (the channel that carries her show the D-List and the Emmy’s) who has let her say much worse, decides to censor her.

If you watch her show you wouldn’t think twice about this and you would just start laughing. She’s being herself and I wouldn’t hold my breath for any apologies whatsoever. I’ve heard a lot of people say that it would be okay if she did this in a comedy club but not on TV. I say it’s either offensive or it isn’t, in a club or not. It takes a lot to offend me and even then I don’t give a shit.

I’m sure that this censorship will have something to do with “The Children”. Fuck the children! People need to stop raising a bunch of pussies, who the hell is going to run this country? Soccer games without scores, no dodge ball or tag because we might offend the children. Life is tuff and full of emotion and you need to let the kids feel. Did I go too far?

I abhor censorship at any level. I actually blogged about this on my MySpace account a few weeks ago. It was a reaction (I'll be it a late one) to Imus. Here's a cut and paste.

Imus - Not Just a Silly Ass Name, Our Species Tragedy

Imus is but one more gem in the crown of the great oppressor political correctness. This tyrant has been squashing free speech and independent thought in the American workplace for the better part of twenty years and has been quietly trying to conquer mass media for the last decade.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of the time the people around you will think they stink.

Whether you dabble in Darwinism or place your eternal salvation in a creationist model of the universe, where we come find a common ground is that we can all agree Humans are blessed with the gift of independent and abstract thought.

This unique gift has allowed us to imagine the future, wallow in our own inevitable mortality, and allowed us to outsmart the mastodons to become top of the food chain. It also makes us question the world around us and express what's rattling around in our brain pans.

Why do we continue to suppress the one thing that makes us so unique? Those that do have the hutzpah to speak their mind are branded controversial, trouble maker, eccentric. No! These people are human and should feel free to express whatever their gray matter conjures up.

Do we need rules to live by for society to work? Yes. Thou shall not kill is a good one for example. Please tell me the last time someone was literally killed by a word though. What are we being protected from? Yes, words could cause psychological damage that will lead to suicidal tendencies later, but the point is the words don't kill directly. All that words can do is offend. And maybe I'm offended by the fact that so many people are offended so easily. Does that mean they should stop being offended because it bothers me?

See how silly it is when we try to place rules on emotion and govern thought with policy? The end result is a world of lobotomized drones fumbling towards infinity with the slightest bit of spittle hanging from our lips.

Well said Rob!

Steve C weighs in on religion. At least that won't result in long-winded screeds from his faithful readers!

My favorite god thanking business follows MMA (mixed martial arts) fights (for the less hip, you can insert "boxing" and the story holds up). Here is a man charged with beating up another man. He does so. He thanks god for not only ALLOWING him to do so, but for guiding him in this effort. What, god loves *you* more than that other guy? I guess that whole turning the other cheek business was lost on you, Slappy.

-Neruda

AN:
You are now MY God! I love you for saying that about raising kids, and I couldn't agree with you more. All these Ass Hats (yes, I stole that term from Rob Patey) with thier "time outs", "Naughty Mats", and getting upset because the teacher is using a "red" pen to mark up their paper, and the color red causes stress...they are raising a bunch of androids!

Cindy

Long-time reader, first-time comment writer.

I can say I've never used the word "funny" to describe Kathy Griffin ("obnoxious," "annoying," "attention-seeking," yes.

The only reason she has a career is because she's like a 5-car pile up with an explosion - nothing good to see, but people can't help looking. Shame on all of us for making this shrill, talentless skreech of a woman famous. George Carlin should kick all our asses.

As for her "suck it, Jesus" comment: If she'd said, "suck it, Mohammad" or "suck it, Yahweh" - the raging firestorm of negative publicity would have swallowed hollywood (hmmm - that wouldn't be so bad).

I think the only way to make female carrot top go away is to ignore her - kind of like the way the kids had to defeat Freddie Krueger, but I'd rather spend an afternoon with Freddie Krueger than that walking air-raid siren.

Rob, none of Steve's posts or our comments are about censorship. Censorship is official or institutional, ande there is no censorship going on here. What we're discussing is personal taste and judgment. And of course that's all subjective and you're free to think my taste and judgment stink.

Still, it's strange to look upon what, as a nation, we reward and punish. We want above all else to be entertained--and not just by talent, but by *personalities*--whether they're positive or negative. That criterion seems to hold true whether we're talking about presidential candidates, military leaders, professional athletes, or actors. Knowledge, integrity, honor, talent, skill--none of these means as much to the American people as the ability to entertain with personality (positive or negative).

This addiction to shallowness is, in part, what makes other nations shake their heads over us--or hate us. Yes, America is the greatest, most free country in the world, a place where Kathy Griffin can say "Suck it, Jesus" and be profoundly rewarded for saying it. What's sad is not that she CAN be rewarded for that here, but that she WILL be.

If you stand back from the emotion of it, you realize how foolish this woman is. She is saying that a trophy (fame, fortune, etc.) is her "god." We've all (publicly, lately)how it turns out when you look to that for your happiness and peace.

So as someone who believes deeply in God and bases my life around that faith, I just think it's sad to see someone reject something so profoundly, only to cling to something so elusive.

Paul - Interesting you mention George Carlin, because in his heyday, reaction to him was pretty dicey, and people were "concerned" about his style of humour and there was much discussion about whether HE went too far. Now he's thought of as a humour genius by many.

Please understand I'm not (at all) suggesting Kathy Griffin is anywhere near Carlin's league, I'm just sayin', it does seem, that as a society we have somewhere along the line decide to pretend that real life isn't something we should recognize, and teach our children how to navigate.

Instead some of us have decided to create a bubble that insulates the kids and us from the real deal. No big surprise then, when the bubble bursts (as it inevitably has to) and the people inside it are unable to function in the often mean, selfish, demanding and messy real world.

Jane Greer is my hero.

It's not at all by accident that I mentioned George Carlin. Carlin was controversial and ahead of his time, but his act was relevant and most of all funny.

KG is controversial for the sake of controversy - her "act" has no redeeming qualities, from what I can see - other than to make the blogs talk about her, thus extending her 15 minutes.

Son of a bitch, Paul. And I fell for it. I didn't even know who she was before I read that quote . . . I fell for it.

Now I hate her with the heat of a thousand suns.

Steve C.

Christians offended by Kathy Griffin's remarks can take comfort in Michael Vick's press conference announcement that "he had found Jesus" during his dog fighting/torture/murder indictment.

Yeah, right.

I think Jesus is the kind of guy who doesn't mind being found by most people, but I wouldn't blame him a bit if he made an extra effort to hide from Kathy Griffin.

Now, now, Robert:

Remember: WWJD? I see that on bumper stickers all over the suburbs here in the midwest. It took me forever to catch on to the fact that it stands for What Would Jesus Do?

If only 5 percent of the people who proudly display those bumper stickers actually lived their life according to what Jesus would do, the world would be a much better place.

Les, your blog item on your job as a teacher was the best thing that's been written in the blogosphere since someone came up with the name blogosphere.

Steve C.

Hail Bombasticles! Thank you, Steve, for you kind words. I had great fun writing that. I am honored that you liked it.

In defense of my Brother Robert, the bumper sticker crowd is not important here. Many excellent points have been made in this forum about the beating Christianity is supposed to take when other religions will bomb you into oblivion for far less. Then who is acting on their beliefs?

If Kathy Griffin wants to say those things, let her rant. Such is popular culture these days. Belief in a prophet is a quiet thing. You open your heart to a higher power and just let it in. Spirit comes in quietly, but only when invited. Robert merely illustrates that Kathy Griffin pushes that away by her shrill comments. But that is her right.

They wouldn't be driving cars.

Jesus walked.

Among the poor and stuff.

Sometimes you gotta look beyond the people.

Paul - Sorry, but you cant make the argument that Carlin was different because he was "relevant and funny" - both are subjective judgements. Now, *I* generally find Carlin relevant and freakin hilarious (except when I saw him in vegas 3 years ago - I thought he sucked out loud. Crickets could be heard in the MGM Grand. This made me sad). And indeed I dont usually find Griffin all that entertaining. But that is irrelevant.

If Steve's point was that her message was not heard because of the controversy, I'd disagree. Hell, the only way *I* heard about it was HERE... because of that very controversy! And the "Suck it" part was the money shot. It didnt resonate with many folks, fair enough, but edgy stuff isnt supposed to.

Even though I find the very concept of an invisible sky magician downright silly (another point on which Mr. Carlin and I agree) I can certainly appreciate - and agree with - Les' post.

-Neruda

You see, I'm gonna let that "invisible sky magician" comment slide because saying anything -- anything at all -- about it would put me at the head of the line for being branded a whacko religious zealot type. But it simply reinforces Les's point. Pick nearly any other faith and make light of it and you're being insensitive or unenlightened or intolerant. But link a reference to oral sex with a reference to the Christian world's son of God and you're hailed as someone who stands up for free speech / creative freedom / blahblahblah (even if your defenders readily admit that you're a talentless boor).

I am being all too agreeable these days in the old comments section - but yeah, I see that point. I am all for anyone who pokes a little bit at *any* faith to be hailed as quite the free thinker!

I've often heard the argument that christians are the last group it's acceptable - in vogue even - to attack. Not so - try being an atheist. Can't get elected to public office, opinions openly discounted or disregarded, just try annoucing your (in this case, lack of) faith in public the way christians do and see how it goes over.

What this has to do with Kathy Griffin, I have no idea. But its been both insightful and entertaining, I'll give it that.

As a Christian, I am truly tired out by the "Christian groups" who publicly denouncing Kathy Griffin and her ilk (just read about one on MSNBC.com).

If we're actually living out our faith, we should do less talking and more actions that Christ himself would do. Is it disturbing what she said to me, a believer? Yes. Will it make a difference if I talk about why it's disturbing or will it make a difference if I take a meal to my friend Tina who's Mom died on Tuesday from breast cancer? Probably the second.

And if Christians were busy being the hands and feet of Jesus in today's world, chances are they wouldn't have time or energy to know who Kathy Griffin is or what the hell she said (did I make you gasp? Yeah, some Christians can say hell and believe deeply. Tust me.)

Can I get an amen?

Amen, sister! (I'll bet ol' Bombasticles never dreamt he would be hosting an old-fashioned tent meeting on his blog.)

Love what you say about how Christians could do with a little more living and a lot less talking, Eileen.

And yes, it IS relevant to the whole Kathy Griffin thing. Because every time somebody like her uses their fame to try to tear down Christians (or any other people or groups they don't understand), defenders of said people or groups just make matters worse by jumping to loud, obnoxious defenses. Anybody who has ever read the Bible knows that's not what Jesus did to the Kathy Griffins of his day (aka the Pharisees). Well, there was that whole cleansing-the-temple episode, but hey, even the Son of God gets pissed off now and then.

The point is, if we Christians want to be more like Jesus in the face of criticism and disrespect, then we won't go shooting off our mouths and making asses of ourselves. We would use good humor, wit and say stuff that makes our critics go away scratching their heads and having a hard time getting to sleep at night for thinking so hard about what we did.

You know this whole free speech thing works both ways. As much as Ms. Griffin has the right to say these things, I also have the right to preach from the Bible without legal retribution. In as much as I personally find her comments offensive, as a Christian I have a clear direction as to how I need to respond.

Romans 12:17-20 clearly guides us:
(17)Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. (18) If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. (19) Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. (20) On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

Actually, this last verse (20) is a reference from Proverbs 25:21-22 (Proverbs is classified as wisdom literature).

I'm no theologian, but heaping burning coals on your head is not meant to be something that is done to someone. I just discovered yesterday that this was an Egyptian practice, whereby a person would demonstrate their regret for an action by walking around with a bowl of hot coals on their head. It is something you do to yourself out of shame. Go figure.

I believe Ms. Griffin is an enemy of the church and Christian’s everywhere. What Jesus is saying here is that it is our responsibility not to demand justice from our enemy, rather to forgive her and see what we can do to help her. In doing this, we can disarm her and take some of the wind out of her sails. We will heap coals upon her head. And if she does not acquiesce, He will avenge and repay.

Recognize the comments as offensive and let them pass. Pray for her to find the one true God in Jesus Christ. Her god of fame will die with her. What a sad way to go through life.

And by the way, I do thank Jesus that I live in a country where I can pray openly and freely express my faith.

People have a right not to be proselytized to, by anyone of any religion or non-religion or anti-religion. I just can't stand being proselytized to.

Which is why I'm not fond of marketing, either.

Personally, I like the bumper sticker Bostonians were fond of a few years back: WWJDD (What would Johnny Damon do?). But then he went and ruined it by joining the Evil Empire.
Greg

I think there must be something wrong with me because I think Kathy Griffin is hilarious. And I loved what she said. It cracked me up! And I am Christian but not easily offended.

Going over the line?

I'm for it. Pretty much all the time, in every circumstance. Sure, you'll piss some people off. But more importantly, you'll wake up many, many people who are sleep-walking through life. And not only is that good for them, but it's good for you. Watching them rise up, all self-righteous and irate, to decry your lack of taste, intellect, discretion, whatever: how much fun is THAT?!

Exhibit A: Several posts on this thread.

In conclusion, if less is more, just think how much more "more" would be.

Kathy Griffin and Steve C, rock on. Going over the line? What line?

CSP

Who is "Kathy Griffin," and what is an "Emmy?"